This excerpt was originally published in Pre Shift, our newsletter for the hospitality industry. Subscribe for more first-person accounts, advice, and interviews.
Everyone needs a convenient, accessible place to socialize. But maintaining a cafe, bar, restaurant, or hybrid space that fits the bill has its challenges. We’re partnering with Spectrum Business to put a spotlight on third spaces and how their operators make them work.
To cap off Pre Shift’s series on third spaces, we hosted an event at buzzy Café Tondo in Los Angeles to discuss the new third spaces, asking local operators to let us in on their secrets to running welcoming, community-oriented businesses.
Read on for the conversation with Abraham Campillo of Café Tondo, Matthew Glaser of the hospitality group Park, and Sarah Lewitinn of Jacaranda, moderated by Eater brand director Lesley Suter.
“Third space” has become a bit of a buzzword. What do we actually mean when we talk about these places?
“I think that a third space is a place where people can get together and meet, which doesn’t necessarily include a commerce aspect. Maybe it’s a park, maybe it’s a bar, maybe it’s a food court at a mall. In theory, these have commercial aspects, but the important thing is offering an opportunity for people to meet where they might not necessarily have organically met at school or work or something like that.” —Sarah Lewitinn, co-owner of Jacaranda
“Lingering is such an important aspect of a third space. You shouldn’t feel pressured to go along with [something that a place is] prescribing, like ‘Wait in this line,’ or ‘Order or get out of here.’ A third space is somewhere you can settle in, you can have another friend come join you. There’s a stranger aspect — there are so few places you can interact with people you don’t already know — and third spaces introduce a level of chaos. You don’t know what exactly will happen, but you might end up on a journey.” —Matthew Glaser of Park Hospitality
“It’s a response to loneliness… Third spaces can have different iterations, but they need to combat that loneliness that’s really prominent as we get more and more digitized.” —Abraham Campillo, co-owner of Café Tondo
“Third spaces” are also entangled with community. What does building a community through a food and beverage business actually mean? And how do you get the community to keep coming back to you?
“I think it’s [about] inviting people in. We do music programming and food collaborations like we did with Lasita. It’s about not making [the space] about yourself and not even making it about the food and drinking, and asking yourself: Who are you doing it for? How can we create moments throughout the calendar that make it about our people? That is what builds an authentic community; people want things to look forward to… There’s also an importance of knowing your people: the people you get your wine from, your regulars, your suppliers. Having good food and drinks is available at a million places, but good people [are rarer].” —Campillo
“If you want to build community, you can’t do it with the idea that you’re going to make money off of it. It’s the people that met [at your place] and are then going to have their wedding there in five years; that’s not something you plan for, that’s something that’s kismet and beautiful. It’s the best part of the business. But it’s not a direct ROI. It’s a long, long, long game.” —Glaser
“When my husband and I were doing Jacaranda social club, which was a pop-up restaurant in our home, part of it was inspired by the massive shabbat dinners we were hosting. We ended up building a nice community through all this… We built a community of people who were coming to our home for this buffet-style meal, [and then we were able to ask,] ‘By the way, do you want to come for a 10-course pop-up dinner?’ and building it up to ‘Do you want to come to our restaurant?’ They always felt like they were a part of something… They’re now showing their friends our restaurant and saying, ‘I know these people. They’re our friends.’” —Lewitinn
There’s certain things about your businesses that feel especially welcoming. What are some of the decisions you’ve made that help contribute to that?
“My bar mentor Brian Traynam [of Uncle Ollie’s] really took me under his wing and taught me his little tricks. Like, the lighting has to be just bright enough that you can see your partner but just low enough that they have to lean a little bit forward. You want the volume high enough that you can hear the person across from you, but not the people around you. There’s all these little subtle things that are absolute gospel to me. In a really good third space, you walk in there with an aspiration for the night—like, ‘I’m going to have a great first date’ or ‘I’m going to see my old friends I haven’t seen in forever, and we’re going to have the best time’—and the space should not get in the way. You shouldn’t notice the space making your time better, it just does.” —Glaser
“We decided to do no turns at Jacaranda. When people come in, I let them know, ‘This is your table for the night. We’re not kicking you out. You want to sit here and drink water the whole night? Great, this is your seat. And if you see someone that you want to meet tonight, tell me, and I’ll introduce you to them. Make yourself comfortable.’” —Lewitinn
“One decision we made was with walk-ins. [Guests have the] ability to have spontaneous nights at Café Tondo. Everything now [requires a] reservation, and I’m not a reservation-type person. The greenhouse area and outside seating of our restaurant is all for walk-ins… I can squeeze eight into a six-top or six into a four-top, and I think that goes a long way for people. I think the worst thing you can do as a bar owner or restaurateur is turn people down because they have one too many. They will never forgive you for that.” —Campillo
Social media can be an easy way to build community, but it can also cause problems. How do you use social media for your third space?
“I don’t think we could function without it. For us being new in Chinatown, we knew we needed to get people here. It’s been hugely helpful for us, especially with communicating [how we work, since] we do coffee in the morning, wine and food at night [and have weekly programming like] boleros on Tuesdays, jazz on Wednesdays, DJs on Saturdays. I was scared when we opened last July, and seeing the good response on social media made it a lot less scary as a first-time owner.” —Campillo
“We have a full-time social media manager. Social media is a blessing and a curse [because it sometimes] takes you out of the third space; it’s like you’re creating something for someone who’s not actually there. That being said, if you open a new place, you used to spend $5,000 to $10,000 on PR, and now you don’t have to because you can get a ton of eyeballs on your space really quickly with social media.” —Glaser
What’s one piece of advice you’d give to someone who’s trying to create a third space?
“Find ways to introduce people to each other because the most important thing about having a third space is connecting people.” —Lewitinn
“People think that [restaurants and bars] that are close to each other are competing. But actually, we’re helping each other. If someone gets dinner there, maybe they’ll get a drink here. So I would encourage neighbors to collaborate.” —Campillo
“At least one person [on your team] has to love the space. They have to want to be there and love the crowd. You can always tell when you go to a place and the owner loves it; you can feel it.” —Glaser